Rachael Lavelle - Big Dreams (track by track)
Rachael Lavelle talks us through each song on one of the best albums released in 2023
Rachael Lavelle released one of the best albums of 2023 in her debut, Big Dreams. She sat down for a chat on the TPOE podcast in November which you can read below. It’s been edited for length and clarity.
It's been four years since 'Perpetual Party’ came out - your first song. Some people would say it was a long time. I was like, 'Where is the next Rachel Laevelle track?' But it seems like you were busy. We might talk about some of the things that you were up to in the interim four years apart from working on this new album. You made a track with Conor O'Brien from Villagers that was on their last album, Fever Dreams. That was a lovely collaboration called 'Full Faith in Providence'. Was that a nice experience recording with Conor? I think you played with him as well?
Yeah, I sang with him at the Iveagh Gardens. It was very fun. That was an amazing sort of magical experience. During lockdown, I just got a direct message on Twitter from him. He was like, 'Hey, love your song (laughs). Wondering if you'd be up for trying a few things on this. It might work, it might not work, but give it a go'. And then he sent me the 'Full Faith in Providence' track. And I just did so many takes for it. Like all in one night. I sent him a million different versions. And he was like, 'Do it as if it was a karaoke version of my song' and all these things. But I just love the song. I think there's such a nice message in the song and immediately I was like, I am obsessed with this. It's just an honour to have any kind of input at all. He's amazing. He's also very inspiring.
You made a track with Crash Ensemble as well that came out on their album [Reactions] from last year. Was that your first time working in that kind of classical world?
I studied music and media technology. And part of that course was composition. So I would have done things with the Irish Composers' Collective, little pieces. And I've always really liked having that kind of outlet. And with the Crash Ensemble piece, that was with Kate Ellis and Caimin Gilmore. It was great to work with them. They're just amazing players. And it was really interesting, they were playing cello and double bass in a new way. It was nice because I got to bring in my own electronic practices with them and I collaborated with them on that. But yeah, I do do a bit of composing for choir and film. I've done a few little kind of short film stuff as well. I do like it as an outlet. Definitely.
Is that totally different to the sounds that are on this album? Are they very much in a different kind of a world?
I think that they definitely feed into it. A lot of the vocal stuff that was made on this album is sort of inspired by trying to write for a choir. I do think that they influence each other, definitely.
And are there any other artists that you've played with, made music with in the past couple years that I'm missing?
Odd Ned, Denis O'Connor. He's an amazing musician. He makes kind of soft dubstep music, but we have a collaboration called To The Fields and we've been working on little tracks. So hopefully, we'll get something together.
And so, working on this album all the way through since we last talked (in 2019) as well. I'm guessing?
Yeah, it's been finished for ages.
As in like a couple of years?
Like a year and a half.
So you've been sitting on it for a while?
Yeah.
Why, just shipping it off to a label?
Yeah, I was. I finished it. And then I was looking for a label for ages. And [there was] a little bit of interest, but not really. And then I was just like, I can't wait around any longer, so I'll just have to put it out myself because otherwise I'm just gonna be so sick of these songs.
You know them inside out?
Yeah but I have been like, 'is this the worst decision ever?
Putting them out yourself?
Yeah, but I think it's the only decision so it's gotta be the best.
Has it been a lot of work putting out this album?
Oh yeah. It's been really good for me. I'm not really very good at admin things. And then suddenly, I had to, you know, follow up on this person - because if I don't do it, no one's gonna do it. I've had help around me as well. At the beginning, I was like, I'm doing this all alone. And then as it's gone on, I've gotten help from people.
Did you work on this during the pandemic? Was this almost like, a pandemic project?
Sort of, in some ways, I was kind of working on other things as well. But yeah, it sort of had been finished; like I've been finishing for ages. I guess it was during the pandemic, it was nearly finished. And then I was like, 'This just doesn't sound like my album. And it doesn't work.' So then I had to kind of rip it apart and work on it more. Until it worked.
Are the bones of the tracks all the same?
I'd say the bones, yeah, I think it was more the production and stuff. And then there were parts missing, some sort of segues.
Did you have a grand vision? Can you imagine back at the start what your idea was for the debut album?
I knew that I wanted it to be called Big Dreams. And I kind of knew what I wanted it to feel like. I wanted it to be sort of like - OK I'm gonna say pleasing to the ear, but there'd be little details and things you can catch on to or, I guess, have a cinematic element to it. I think also I didn't know at the same time. So it was trying everything and then being like, 'Hmmm, no, it doesn't work yet'. And that was really heartbreaking. But I think that's just part of the process.
Yeah, a learning curve.
Definitely. I learned a lot. It was very good for me to do that.
Travel Size
Let's talk through the tracks song by song. The first song on the album is called 'Travel Size'. You sing about angels on this song and it almost sounds like a dream -halfway through the music just [makes a dreamy sound]. Is this you setting up the rest of the album, this idea of big dreams?
Yeah, for this one. I definitely wanted it to have almost like you'r suspended in air and floating and dreaming; I guess dreaming in that, this could be a surreal dream, but also dreaming of going somewhere. This one I did write actually during Covid. And I think it originally wasn't going to be the album. Then I was like, this is definitely the opening for the album. Because it does set up the dream.
You have a song called 'Sleepy Gal’ later on. So we might save the idea of sleep for later on in the chat. But staying with dreams, are you a big dreamer? Are you interested in that world, you into lucid dreaming or stuff like that?
I got really into it actually, when I was making this. Trying to train myself how to lucid dream and you have all like- I don't know, have you tried?
I haven't, no. I'm maybe at the very start of being interested in it.
Well, you can do all these strange things where you have to look at your hands, and look away and then look back and keep asking yourself, Am I dreaming? Am I dreaming anything? And another one is looking at switches. So I did weird things. Like I set alarms at four o'clock in the morning to wake myself up just in the middle so that I would remember my dreams as well. I was actually very into dreams making this album.
And you were writing them down as well., keeping a dream diary?
Lately, I've had these crazy dreams. And last night I had this dream that I met Little Simz. And she told me all the mistakes in the draft of that song - of course you would know that!
Wow. So they're influential in a certain way these dreams?
Yeah, I think so.
Did you feel a lot of pressure around your debut album, that people were like, 'Ahh, where's the album?' sort of a thing?
Yeah, I think because I had been finishing it for so long, it was kind of like, oh, it's strange that you haven't finished it. I mean, it was just pressure on myself, really. But also yeah, it's awful when you don't have a finished something. It's nearly there, but it's not there. But yeah, I think the pressure would have just been I put it on myself because nobody really cares.
Ah, people do care. I said before we recorded I was very excited to get the full album.
Let Me Unlock Your Full Potential
'Let Me Unlock Your Full Potential' is the second song. What a lush song and a brilliant video to match. How much fun was making this video with Bob Gallagher?
It was honestly amazing. It was just magical. It was like being in a Disney movie or something. We just had so much fun. Like when I asked Bob if he would do the videos, 'Oh of course he's too busy. You know, it's fine. It's big dreams. He'll never say yes.' And I sent him an email being like, 'We have a very small budget but very expensive taste, very elaborate things.' It was so fun just with the costumes. And everyone was so great making it and we got to also try out archery as well. Because I came to Bob and I was like, 'I don't know what I want it to be about but I want to be an archer in it.' And he was like, 'Yes, sure, no problem.'
Did you work on the idea for the video with him? Did you have the idea for it yourself?
I wanted it to be like I was training for something kinda like The Hunger Games. I think with the archery, that brought in - like there's so many myths with archery and with arrows, bow and arrow, Cupid and everything - and then Bob got back to me with the video of 'Rest Energy' by Marina Abramovich and Ulay and yeah, we just went from there. It was great.
What's your favorite part of the video? Is it all of the archery scenes?
I really enjoyed spinning on the spinning table thing with John Doran. It was really fun. It was weirdly peaceful.
Have you stuck with the archery? Have you gone back for classes or anything like that?
No, I'd love to. I'd love to do it. It was really fun. Like, we just practised in Bob's garden. And also it was very strange because the art director, her assistant, Sophie, comes from a family of like, archery Olympians. So she was like, 'OK, this is how you hold the bow'. It was great. It was one of those funny, serendipitous things, where suddenly everyone was really into archery.
Tell me about the song lyrically, musically, maybe what it means to you?
Well, the title, 'Let Me Unlock Your Full Potential' is from a YouTube ad that just kind of came up in my feed. I was just like, 'Oh, that's a great name for a song'. Lyrically, Bob did such an incredible job with the video, because it really does reflect this kind of overcoming yourself or, you know, with the song, you want someone to do something for you, or someone to tell you, 'Oh, you should do this,' but nobody's really gonna say that to you. Or they could say it and you won't believe it. And it's sort of finding that, I guess, self-confidence to do something.
Yeah. Like, there is that serious thing underlaying the tracks but you put humour above it as well. Like the video is so funny. Some of the stuff on the track - this track and other songs as well that we'll talk about - are so funny as well. But there is that serious meaning behind it as well.
Oh, thank you. I'm glad that you thought it was funny.
It's supposed to be funny, though, isn't it!?
It's supposed to be funny, yeah, totally. Definitely humour is a big part of this album and I'm glad that it comes across. It's meaningful. I think that humour is interesting, because you can get away with saying things as well. Things that are kind of sad. Because people are like, 'Oh, she's just being funny'. You know, like with 'Sleepy Gal' or something. I like that kind of weird...
Juxtaposition?
Yeah.
Soft Colour Palette
This is kind of an interlude; it's only 80 seconds long. Tell me about the song.
I wrote that to link 'Let Me Unlock' and 'Eat Clean'. Because in the tracklisting it felt like their worlds were so far apart. I had this lyric that I took down; it was inspired by this interview about creativity. I can't find the interview anywhere, I looked for it.
Maybe it was a dream.
Maybe it was a dream, yeah. She was saying something like, 'Oh, it's not all soft colour palettes' and I was like, it is all soft colour palettes! (laughs) The song, I guess, leans into that eat clean world where things have to be clean and perfect. And then you're sort of like, floating around not knowing what to do and being a little mess.
So I'm presuming this was probably late on in the process so if you see it as almost a link song between the other two?
Yeah, yeah.
Eat Clean
Startling imagery to start with: "Blink twice if you're lonely. Make love in a distillery" Tell me about this song.
I wrote it when I was working in a tennis club... it's the sounds of the balls, and people just coming in and they're all like sweaty. I guess I was just thinking about the body as machine. I think maybe at the time, I guess I was sort of like, 'What am I doing with my life?' The lyrics are like, "Give me a recipe. I'll follow it until I get it" and wanting to be like, 'Tell me what I have to do'. I'm not telling anyone to eat clean or anything, obviously, but it is that like, 'dream big, eat clean’ - these kind of mantras that you're hearing all the time and you're like, OK....
How deep do I look into a song like "make love in a distillery? Is that advice? Is that something else? Because it's so... odd.
That lyric, actually, my friend told me recently that she met her girlfriend in a distillery. She was like, 'That's so weird that you have this lyric about a distillery.' But I didn't write it about them. I guess it's sort of maybe in terms of dating, or looking for someone? There can be all this choice - "bottle it up and spin it around" - this catalogue of humans. Maybe that feeds into it in a weird sort of mechanical way.
Did you have a whole list of lyrics that you could have worked into the song, this kind of wellness advice?
I think all of the lyrics that are in it are like, I don't have any extra. And usually they would be like the title. I think they've all made it in there.
The press release says that it's a coming-of-age album. Is that how you see it? Is it a tongue-in-cheek coming-of-age album?
For sure, yeah, I mean, nobody really comes of age.
Gratitude
It begins with a choir?
Well, it's just my voice layered a lot. I would make all these kinds of - I just really enjoy making those pieces where you're just improvising over your voice and you can come up with new melodies. And this one is one that I made when I was in Lisbon, which is actually where I started writing the album in like 2017. CMAT has been there as well. And Ruth Mac actually, it's like this beautiful space overlooking this river and a hum of a bridge and it's just very peaceful and really inspiring place to make music. So I think that was probably taken from around that. And then yeah, collaborated with Ryan Hargadon on it. He wrote all these amazing loops and he really brought that song to a new life and 'Eat Clean' as well. Yeah. And 'Let Me Unlock'. He was instrumental in the process.
Tell me about the voice that comes in on this track. It's a computer, I think, rather than the voice that we hear on the final track, is it?
No, it's still Doireann Ní Bhriain. She's an unbelievable human. Originally, I think maybe you heard this when I played it first, but it used to be like an Irish Siri. And then I heard her voice on the Luas and I was like, 'I could just ask her would she be the voice?'
How did you get in contact with her?
It was kind of strange, because I had actually done drama lessons with her daughter or something ages ago. Her other daughter had played - she's an amazing violinist and she had been part of this thing that I was singing in. So we weirdly had connections. But I just emailed her. And I had been procrastinating on it for like, at least four months. I was like, she's not gonna want to do it.
Procrastinating as in…
Just on like, the email. Maybe this is why everything took so long. But I emailed her and she was like, 'Just call me back'. She's so great.
And so how did you record her or was it just her doing voice notes or recording herself? Did you record her?
Some were voice notes. Some were in a studio with Alex Barwick. And then some were in my house? Yeah, we did it so many times, because I was trying to figure out what exactly she should sound like. So we went through loads of different versions. She was extremely kind. And I was extremely annoying.
She sounds a little different on this track than the last song, that's why I thought that they were different.
Oh, maybe she's like, reversed in some of it.
OK. Wow. So you really did play around with it.
Yeah. But I think on this track, she's the most natural sounding and then she gets gradually disembodied,
What role do you see her as playing on this track? Because there's a couple of songs there where that idea kind of comes through now in the second half of the album, this computerised voice almost.
Yeah. I liked the idea that she was sort of your inner critic. But then she was also the voice; like the fact that she is the voice of the Luas made me think about her in a very different way. Because I was imagining like, 'OK what if you could be on the Luas and the Luas lady could be like, "Wants love, love, to love and to be loved." I dunno, I just think it would be kind of interesting how people would ask you...
These deep questions?
Yeah. Yeah. Or if she's like "Gratitude, ever heard of it?"
Do you find them funny? Did you find that you had to almost answer these questions that she's throwing out as well? Because they are deep.
Yeah, I think the fact that she's not me, and she's a little bit disembodied as it goes on, makes it maybe a bit funnier, even though she's saying serious things. Because I feel like if I was saying that in a serious way, people will be like, 'Cool. I don't care. We've heard it before.'
Perpetual Party
Track six is 'Perpetual Party', your very first single, released in 2019. It still sounds so distinctive. Did you do anything with this song for this album? Is it the exact same song?
No, it's exactly the same.
What's your relationship with it? Have your ideas of it changed in the context of the album or anything?
No, I think I knew that I wanted the second side of the album to start with 'Perpetual Party'. I feel like it is the beginning of the album in my own head, in terms of the themes or how I recorded it. But also my voice sounds really young in it, listening back.
My Simple Pleasures
So this one is is based on the dating app Hinge. The questions are from Hinge and some of the answers are also from Hinge. Some of them were changed. I like the idea of having Doireann chat to someone.
I was trying to figure out which voice is you? Are you one of the voices? Because it's her talking to this male voice? I was trying to figure out like, who represents who? Who are like, your answers?
I guess none of them are my answers. Maybe the last part when it says "crying laughing emoji". That's my answer.
That's interesting that it is the dating app. Some of the influences that you've talked about, like getting the title for 'Let Me Unlock Your Full Potential' from a YouTube preroll ad, getting the song from a dating app. It's all like these things in modern life that you're gathering. Like, I asked you for musical influences, but I guess you're taking everything in at once, are you? Are you doing that consciously? Or is it just like you are watching YouTube and you're like, 'Oh, that's a good name for a title'? You're on Hinge like, 'Oh, that's a funny question'. Are you taking note of everything? Or are you just thinking about it all later on? Letting it all in the melting pot?
Yeah, I think I spend a lot of time on the internet. So it definitely feeds in to my writing. Yeah, I guess I just write what I'm interested in or that I feel like I can make a musical version of.
Night Train
'Night Train' track number eight, which I think is absolutely amazing. You mentioned some of the artists that you worked with on the album. Do you want to talk to me more about who you worked with? Ryan Hargadon is one - people would know him from [working with] Kojaque.
Yeah Kojaque, Anna Mieke, and he has his own band, Moondiver, as well. I worked with Ryan Hargadon, and Alex Barwick on the album. It was just very long and amazing and I definitely put some of them through hell (laughs). Ryan just brings so much, he's an incredible musician - and Alex. Ryan's amazing with choosing synths and he's just very good at being like, 'Space, Rachael, space.'. And I'm like, 'Everything!' The final tracks, definitely 'Night Train', we would have collaborated on that a lot. And 'Eat Clean' and 'Let Me Unlock'. And Alex, we did 'Perpetual Party' and 'Big Dreams', 'Sleepy Gal'. They're amazing collaborators.
Yeah, this does feel like a full effort because there's like three different changes, I think, in this song. It starts like almost claustrophobic and builds to this big synthy outro. So maybe talk about how the song developed. Was it that you had too much on the song, and they were like, giving you space for it?
At the beginning, it was like a piano ballad. And we were kind of like, 'mmm I dunno'. And then Ryan was like, 'There's something in that.' 'OK I'm gonna work on it.' And also, like, the first line is so bad. And so good. The first line is "I was meant to be in love by now. Nobody told me I'd be lonely". It's a terrible line. I tried to rewrite that and everything. And I was like, maybe that's just what it is. But for this, yeah, it just went through so many different versions, all the different sections. Ryan was like, 'You should just have a big dance section at the end.' I was like, 'OK, let's do it!'... It was fun. But it didn't work for so long. It was like, 'This is the worst song ever.' And then suddenly, we're like, 'OK, we're happy with it.'
What happened to make you happy? Is it just like, eventually, it all clicks into place?
Yeah I think so. It just went through loads of different versions. And then, when it had a structure that made sense - it also doesn't make any sense, the structure... It was just like this is where we will rock. We're gonna go rock out. We haven't played it live yet, but I don't know how we're gonna do it.
I think it's gonna be so good. Anything else you want to say about that song?
Not really. I mean, I kind of knew the mood. Because, the second half of the album, I really wanted it to be more about night-time thoughts... I definitely had this image of like, leaving a night out and just thinking, ‘I'm gonna meet the love of my life’ - and then not. And then going to get chips and walking and just being... so dramatic. Like it's such a dramatic song.
Sleepy Gal
We talked about dreams earlier. Let's talk about sleep. Another influence I'm guessing?
Yes, I like to sleep.
You sing, "Sleep, I never tire of it." Are you a good sleeper? You're a great eight-hours-a-night kind of a gal?
I definitely prioritise my sleep. I try and get eight hours of sleep if I can. At the moment, I'm just on my computer all the time so I'm having these crazy dreams. I don't know why. But I also started listening to this sleep hypnosis person called Michael Sealy. This Australian guy. He's so funny. But I do definitely prioritise my sleep. With this song, I kept waking up in the morning and singing this song. And I was like, 'This is really a stupid song.' But I'd be like, 'There's something in it.' And it was definitely the easiest song to write. I guess when you're like, This is a joke - there was no pressure with that song.
The album cover looks very comfortable as well, it's you on a giant pillow, an inflatable thing. Is that just as comfortable as it looks?
It was amazing. Yeah. I worked with Sarah Flanagan. She did the art direction for 'Let Me Unlock' and 'Big Dreams' video. The album cover went through loads of different ideas. And then we tried to do something with a pillow. And then Sarah was like, 'I'm gonna make a giant pillow.' And I was like, 'You're crazy.' So she just made this giant pillow. It was originally meant to be for press shots. And then it ended up being the cover.
Did you get to keep it?
It's in Sarah's studio.
You haven't gotten an eight-hour sleep on the pillow or anything?
No, it was very comfortable. This album and doing the visual stuff has been amazing because I've just had to relax and not do anything.
Big Dreams
'Big Dreams' is the final track on the album. Again, such a great song. Tell me about this song, again just full of great ideas.
Thank you so much. Actually, I wrote the melody for it when I was in Lisbon in 2017. And it was sort of a strange experience. I wrote it on a synth. I didn't have any words. But the melody was like, someone was dying or like moving on, but I kept imagining the end of my life. And you know the way people say when just before you die, you get all these flashbacks? I was just thinking about like, Oh, I'd just be flooded with all the people that I met or all the lovely memories that I have. So the melody was there and then my granddad passed away and he was a composer and he's like the architect of beauty in a song. Yeah, he definitely fed into it and then there was a relationship that ended and all these kind of strands that fitted into it. But I guess, yeah, I think it is sort of about the end of your life and looking back and being grateful for the experience.
Did you find it a hard song to write? I guess maybe we're talking six years ago, but do you remember it being a tough song maybe to confront some of those ideas?
Honestly, not at all. I don't know why. I think I wrote it really fast.
The opening line is "I came for the comedy, I left for the bus. That was nothing new to me. I have a lot of feelings." How do they all fit together? Is it just again this melting pot of ideas?
I think with "I came for the comedy, I left for the bus", that's definitely like, going out on a night out and then suddenly being like, 'Oh, I gotta leave.' Or just being overwhelmed by something and playing it in your head, like 'Oh this is gonna be really fun' and then being like, 'I gotta go get the bus, bye! How does it relate to the song? I don't know.
And Doireann Ní Bhriain is on the song as well. Is it the same role that she's playing on this song?
Yeah, I think so. Actually, Bob, when he did the video for this song, he was like, 'It's like you're giving yourself a pep talk.' And I was like, Oh, that makes sense. Yeah, her role is sort of, yeah, the future.
The final lyrics that we hear on the album, are "I am open to the possibility". Was that late in the process? Did you have that idea that that was how you wanted to end the song, the album?
I think it was pretty early on, actually, I think when I played the song first, I had used a voice [simulator]. And I liked the idea that it ended with, "I am open to the possibilities".
How do you feel about the album as a whole? Are you happy and proud of it? Pleased with it?
Did my best. Couldn't have worked on it any longer. Just happy to get it out. And yeah, off your off your shoulders.
And I presume since it is 18 months ago that you finished it that you've been working on new music, too. Have you found that the process has changed since finishing the debut album? Are you still like doing a load of takes for a song before you figure it out?
I definitely have learned a lot of skills. That album, it actually took a lot out of me... I don't think I'm going to be as hard on myself for this. And yeah, it's been more enjoyable to write new things. But I just love starting new things. I love it. I hate finishing things. Or like, I love the finished thing but I love a blank page. So I have loads of ideas for the next album, but I just need to figure out what it wants to be.
New music
Sprints - Letter to Self
Congratulations to Sprints on the release of their debut album Letter to Self, which seems to be getting nothing less than four stars from publications around the world, from Stereogum to the Financial Times. Produced by Danial ‘Gilla Band’ Fox
Laurie Shaw - Dove from Above
One of the most prolific artists in the country, Laurie Shaw, released a new record in the first week of the year too, and it’s just sublime - even though his jabs at dolphins seems unwarranted. Won’t somebody think of Fungie?!!? (RIP). He says: "In some ways, Dove From Above is an arrangement of model kit parts from doomed releases. As in, it's definitely not carved out of one block of clay labelled "Dark Wood Honky Tonk" or "Small Town Misadventure" or "Perspex 50s Future". However, the glue used hopefully enforces a different kind of cohesion.
”Some of these songs seem to have fallen out of the flare pocket during the taking of the photo; ANY QUESTIONS and ROLLOVER hopefully have that sort of seventies tang. MONK STRAP SHOES comes from an almost cartoon landscape, complete with Scooby Doo backdrops. It's also sonically a bit ferocious. MOTHERING SUNDAY is the only hark back to the teenage abandon that permeates a lot of the albums in the Laurie Shaw discography. SATELLITE TOWNS seems to stretch back even further than those days; it gets almost larvae stage formative. But then dimensionally, it's travelling on a very parallel line of what ifs and if onlys. LINK ROAD / LINK WRAY is a doomed drive to a secret rumble. F STOP and YOU'RE YOUR OWN BOSSA NOVA exist in filmed, grainy perfection.
Anna Mieke - ‘Red Sun’ (live)
The amazing Anna Mieke released a new version of ‘Red Sun’, the closing track on 2022’s Theatre. It was an exciting and very satisfying project to work on as it was all arranged and recorded in a very short space of time, so there was a sort of tension and adrenaline rush behind everything,” she says.